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Author
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Topic: AS WITH ANY OTHER SOFTWARE................
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Ocasious
Member Posts: 114
From:North Hollywood,CA. U.S.A.
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 12-07-2000 11:07 PM
   
As with any other software you bought, you thought that you would install the editor and get cracking right? well at least I did.
But it wasnt untill I got home and opened the box and did some reading and found out that there wasnt any surpport for the editor.
So the first thing I thought was(well maybe I wont need any) Well I do need a lil help and im unable to get it, and therefore I feel
used and robbed. I never heard such a thing as no surpport for a software product. And im reading this long list of questions that people have posted and thinking is that what I have to look forward to. Then the manual for the editor is a lil shy of what I would call thourough instructions for something of this magnitude. And please dont post anything saying that its because the editor was not intended for the public because thats exactly who it was intended for if its on the store shelves.The thing is that you dont sale anything that has not been properly tested for errors. I mean come on now how could somebody who is testing the program miss something like the monkey or climb options doesent work in the city level?
I mean.....**** that's all she does is climb,shoot and jump. Im starting to believe that the darn thing wasnt tested at all, or maybe the testers was smoking something.
I dont know...... but I do remember something
about it not being any laws forcing software
developers to test and remove errors from the
program before its release. So realy all that
does is keep the developer at fault when an error is found. All im trying to say is that you cant do good business if you dont offer at least one of two mandatory elements for your clientel.....1 is surpport and standing behind the product you sale. 2 is testing the product before attempting to sale it to the general public. And its obvious that niether of these have been met or you wouldnt be here reading this forum right now.
So what does that say about the company? Or better yet what does that say about buying from the company? And whats realy a slap in the face is that you cant return the product to the store where you bought it from. If I buy something and im happy with it I tell a friend or family member to try it out. But of course you know that works both ways ........dont you?IP: Logged |
Reb@Eidos
unregistered
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posted 12-08-2000 11:55 AM
I'm sorry you feel this way...maybe you should have researched the product before purchasing. Although you don't want to hear it, it is true. These tools are proprietary software, and were not developed with the intention of releasing to the public. However, Core has been responsive to the wishes of TR fans and agreed to release the level editor, which was bundled with TR Chronicles and not sold as separate software. It is amazing that you could have so many complaints without even seeing for yourself whether or not you could use the product. Also, it is apparent you have never worked in the industry nor do you have much contact with anyone who does or you would not be so critical of our efforts. At any rate, I hope you will be able to use the 'tools' successfully, have fun with them and eventually change your opinion!IP: Logged |
Ocasious
Member Posts: 114
From:North Hollywood,CA. U.S.A.
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 12-08-2000 05:51 PM
my thoughts were constructed and formed as I spent and still spend countless hours trying to figure out a way to manipulate the bugs that came bundled with the software. So that the air is clear, I did buy the editor and im still using it or what parts I can.
But if you would be so helpful could you explain why cant we climb in the KARNAK wad? IP: Logged |
mirai
Member Posts: 94
From:Tokyo, Japan
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 12-09-2000 12:57 AM
Sorry Reb, you are wrong.
Users are not being critical they are being logical. I work in the industry (15 years)
And for major Japanese game corporations. There is no excuse for buggy or poor software.
This user is correct. some of these bugs are ridiculous and need fixing as soon as possible.
Many people are buying TRC for this software,
as they have been waiting for it for a few years.
TR levels take weeks to design so the initial foundations must be in order.
I.e Both CITY & KARNAK are outdoor scenarios-
You can't climb in them?! (even TR2 has that) The more gaming elements restricted the worse the game will get.Creating texture worlds is no problem and the software is fine for that, but the actual GAME
elements and objects are far too creatively restricted. This is a major blunder that needs
attention. Essentially they will look good but play bad. Some patches & WADs are in order.
When do you see them coming out?
IP: Logged |
quiksilver
Junior Member Posts: 13
From:Vancouver,Canada
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 12-09-2000 11:24 PM
Hey, you should be glad that they even released the editor. I mean, whatever they give us is better than nothing.IP: Logged |
Ocasious
Member Posts: 114
From:North Hollywood,CA. U.S.A.
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 12-10-2000 04:03 AM
yeah your right we all were happy that the editor was released but it would be just swank if we could get the version of it that works properlyIP: Logged |
Chaoslord
Member Posts: 62
From:Lisbon, Portugal
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 12-10-2000 07:12 AM
And i thin you are not completly wrong, ocasious..
well, i was one of the first requesters, of the room editor..
and of course each program has it's own annoying bugs
BUT
core did make the whole game with this same one
and SOON we will have the other tools, like the wad editors and the animeditor (at least i hope) isn't that right ROB...
so all software needs bug-hunting
and they will help us.. in time
and since they are not using this version of the roomedit anymore, they may as well five
ít's source code, so we can bug-hunt...
see yaIP: Logged |
Opdam
Junior Member Posts: 18
From:Brisbane, QLD, Australia
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 12-11-2000 04:08 PM
Regardless of weather or not the wad and animation editors are buggy and/or hard to use, they should be released. I think that it shows a remarkable lack of interest in the wants of the customer on Core's part to release the software at all if it isn't going to able to be used as was intended.When I purchased the game a major deciding factor was that it came with an editor, and imagine my disapointment when I discovered the limitations imposed on the user, that was before I even heard of the bugs. Now I'm feeling quite ripped off. I mean for christ's sake, they've released the level editor, so why don't they just go ahead and release the other parts of the software that are actually REQUIRED to build a level that is fully customized. It seems to me that their attitude is to just release the level editor to satisfy everybody's curiosity and be done with it. Surely they realize that there are people out there who just might be able to make something good with the editor if given the chance? Is it just my copy that had at least 400mb free on the editor cd or what? Wonder what they could have used that wasted space for? So to conclude, I think that Core or Eidos should get off their arses and do something about this, instead of giving everybody a load of excuses. IP: Logged |
Trocinth
Member Posts: 122
From:Bronx, New York, USA
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 12-11-2000 04:24 PM
I have to agree with most of you are saying. I bought Chronicles mainly for the editor (I saw the game itself as a bonus), and while I'm still enjoying playing around with the editor, it's disappointing to think that no matter how much effort I put into it, I won't be able to create a complete game. Aside from the numerous bugs, the WADs are surprisingly limited. How could a TR Editor not allow us to recreate the "push the block" puzzles that practically defined the series in its early days. Okay, I know Last Revelation broke free of that tired puzzle element, but we should still have the option to include it. On the other hand, I think this forum is a great idea, and hopefully the people at Core Design will take notice. Although everything is clamouring for more WADs, I think the programmers should first work on patches for the available WADs, and then begin work on newer WADs that would allow us to make use of the texture sets that aren't from Last Revelation (Egyptian artifacts in a jungle just don't work.) So, thank you Eidos/Core for giving us the editor, now can we persuade you to give us one that works a little better? IP: Logged |
Piskus
Junior Member Posts: 3
From:athens Greece
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 12-12-2000 08:44 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Reb@Eidos:
I'm sorry you feel this way...maybe you should have researched the product before purchasing. Although you don't want to hear it, it is true. These tools are proprietary software, and were not developed with the intention of releasing to the public. However, Core has been responsive to the wishes of TR fans and agreed to release the level editor, which was bundled with TR Chronicles and not sold as separate software. It is amazing that you could have so many complaints without even seeing for yourself whether or not you could use the product. Also, it is apparent you have never worked in the industry nor do you have much contact with anyone who does or you would not be so critical of our efforts. At any rate, I hope you will be able to use the 'tools' successfully, have fun with them and eventually change your opinion!
Its a kinda natural law: You give ppl something and instead of a thanks they want more and more especially those who has given nothing to others never in their life.
Please tell me how can i make a WAD by myself. I know vbasic, c, 3d Studio Max. I need some Ionian pillars desperatelly in order to make a level including ancient greece. Is there any way to make my own objects or even to modify the texture of the default ones?
My ICQ is 81343576 in case u ll need it.
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EmperorRob
Member Posts: 77
From:
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 12-12-2000 09:41 AM
Every one of you should realize that the support we receive for this product will depend largely on the reaction of its users.In other words, if you keep bitching, we won't receive any updates. It ain't perfect, so what? What is? Work with what you got and maybe if we ask nice they'll fix it. IP: Logged |
MrEDude
Member Posts: 278
From:Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 12-12-2000 09:49 AM
Work with what we've got? What we've got is a whole pile of nothing. Two important things that are needed for decent level creation are:
1)a good selection of objects and enemies to place in the levels
2)interest on the part of the people creating the levels. Many of us have no interest in creating Egyptian levels. Why would anyone spend hours creating a level that they're not going to enjoy?
------------------
Just putting in my two cents.[This message has been edited by MrEDude (edited 12-12-2000).] IP: Logged |
Jantje
Member Posts: 93
From:The Netherlands
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-12-2000 11:45 AM
First of all, I'm really happy with the editor, it's always better then nothing. I love it that it's actually finally release, I've been wanting it since TR2. Now after such a long time I am quite satisfied. Too bad for the bugs, but I'm sure Core will fix that soon.
But, I think Core should at least release a tool which you can use to create wad files by just selecting the desired objects/enemies, with what you include the standard animations, nullmeshes and objects etc... I said, at least. I think it's a sorrow you can only create Egyptian Tropic levels, therefore having Lara running around in shorts and a small top in an antarctic environment. So give us a choice of what Lara will wear.So Core/Eidos, Please, PLEASE!!!!! release some wad editing tool with what I can create more diverse levels. Thank you. ------------------
"Ahahahaha, right, in your next life!" Sophia Leigh (or is it Lee?)
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Ocasious
Member Posts: 114
From:North Hollywood,CA. U.S.A.
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 12-12-2000 12:23 PM
Your Right MrEdude, dont never accept any wooden nikels. If there is no demand for wads to be repaired then why would anybody think that they would make new ones? There has to be a market and demand for anyhing for it to sell, and lets face it core/eidos is a business and they want to make money.
So if your happy with just anything a person sells you then thats all you'll ever get, you have to have and standards. And who said that if and when the new wads are available that they would be free? IP: Logged |
Opdam
Junior Member Posts: 18
From:Brisbane, QLD, Australia
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 12-12-2000 03:40 PM
That's exactly right, after all if you can't make something great with it, it won't get used and the demand for support will die.Currently, it's like giving somebody a Subaru WRX STi and no fuel  Or School in summertime. Probably. IP: Logged |
Ocasious
Member Posts: 114
From:North Hollywood,CA. U.S.A.
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 12-12-2000 05:12 PM
More like cutting a person with a knife and then dare them not to bleed......lol.IP: Logged |
MrEDude
Member Posts: 278
From:Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 12-13-2000 06:35 AM
And what I don't understand is how people can think of the level editor as a "gift" for those who purchase Chronicles. It is obvious that the level editor was included in the price. This is why Chronicles costs as much as (or more than) Last Revelation, even though it is much shorter in length. Since we paid for this editor, should we not be entitled to get our money's worth (especially since most level editors are absolutely free)? You would think that since this editor had been anticipated for such a long time that Core would actually put SOME effort into it, instead of giving us a small utility that wasn't even originally designed with the public in mind!------------------
Just putting in my two cents. IP: Logged |
Jantje
Member Posts: 93
From:The Netherlands
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-13-2000 08:16 AM
I also don't really like it that Core/Eidos is entitled to sell/redistribute my level, without either my permission or giving me credit for my work. That means also if I use my own textures, Eidos/Core won't give me credit for that either. Just look in the Legal Disclaimer in the end of the manual:When you publicly distribute your level you automatically grant Core Design
Ltd. and/or Eidos Interactive the perpetual, royalty free right to use, modify,
license and distribute your level in any way we choose. Jantje ------------------
"Ahahahaha, right, in your next life!" Sophia Leigh (or is it Lee?)
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MrEDude
Member Posts: 278
From:Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 12-13-2000 08:58 AM
On another note, this is the first time that I have ever heard of a level editor being released with a game that it is incompatible with! Was I the only one who figured that the Level Editor bundled with Chronicles would actually allow us to edit the levels in Chronicles? I feel that the editor was "dumbed down" to make it easy to use, and therefore any difficult to understand tools (like the WAD editor/creator) were left out. Core must think that we are all stupid. Give us at least a LITTLE credit (then again I was stupid enough to buy this hunk o' junk)! Since Core didn't give us any utility to create/edit/mix-and-match WADs, they should have at least given us a decent selection!------------------
Just putting in my two cents. IP: Logged |
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