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  How do you feel about reality versus completely dark (inside tombs)?

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Author Topic:   How do you feel about reality versus completely dark (inside tombs)?
TRoosevelt_26
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Posts: 44
From:USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 12-12-2001 02:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TRoosevelt_26   Click Here to Email TRoosevelt_26     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Because Core's tombs are as bright as day (usually) and I was thinking more along the lines of a dark tomb with a lot of torches on the walls and a generous complement of flares. Thoughts, anyone?

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I_Make_Levels
Junior Member

Posts: 4
From:Rochester,NY,USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 12-12-2001 02:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I_Make_Levels   Click Here to Email I_Make_Levels     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I really think that its awesome

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K Wolf
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From:
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 12-12-2001 05:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for K Wolf   Click Here to Email K Wolf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yeah, lots of darkness, lots of nasty spike pit traps.
can't go wrong with that

Swimming in pitch darkness could be fun too.

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Ultimate.Reality
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Posts: 204
From:brahman
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 12-12-2001 06:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ultimate.Reality   Click Here to Email Ultimate.Reality     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
being dark is realistic, but not game like.....

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psiko
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Posts: 759
From:unconsciousness
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 12-12-2001 08:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for psiko   Click Here to Email psiko     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
be careful to not have more than 31 flame emitters or you get the flare bug: nothing lightned anymore, neither by lara's gun or flares themselves.

And BTW, actually we are filled of those kind of levels... we've been playing only this type for years... try to create something like Project Eden, the new game from Core design by the original team who created the first tomb raider...

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G.Croft
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Posts: 122
From:Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: May 2001

posted 12-12-2001 10:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for G.Croft     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Too dark isnīt fun, just annoying.
Small parts o.k. but not an entire level.

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Netslider
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Posts: 450
From:Entroncamento, Portugal
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 12-13-2001 03:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Netslider   Click Here to Email Netslider     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I tryed to make one level like that: Nevada Desert.
But I canceled it because it was really anoying to be in the desert without seeing anything but a little house in front of you.
If you are really going to do it, don't make the ambience light lower than 12 in each color.

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KrisGR
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Posts: 269
From:Athens-Greece
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 12-13-2001 05:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KrisGR   Click Here to Email KrisGR     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I hate dark levels.I mean the ones that you can't seeyour nose in them more like it Lara's nose.I like some small dark corners but dark tombs no.I think psiko is right it is not a chalenge anymore to play Egyptian levels or levels with tombs.

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jeffrey van oort
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Posts: 807
From:Monkey Island
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 12-13-2001 06:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jeffrey van oort   Click Here to Email jeffrey van oort     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree.
This is why Core makes the next generation.

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TRoosevelt_26
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Posts: 44
From:USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 12-13-2001 07:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TRoosevelt_26   Click Here to Email TRoosevelt_26     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think Core has misjudged a lot of people, then. And I'm keeping on with the dark theme...and it's quite a blanket statement to say that neither tombs nor dark places pose any sort of challenge to the "veteran" Tomb Raider player. I don't think you'll find that quite the case with these levels.

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KrisGR
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Posts: 269
From:Athens-Greece
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 12-13-2001 08:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KrisGR   Click Here to Email KrisGR     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's exactly the point the "veterans" are the ones sick of them.For the others is still intresting.We are not saying you should change your theme,you asked for our opinions and now you have them.

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wgell
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Posts: 288
From:
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 12-13-2001 10:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wgell   Click Here to Email wgell     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In my levels I`ve made some parts really dark to be more realistic but most players just didn`t like it.

I tried in places to contrast from light to dark which I think is the best way. Games like Max Payne which need to be played in a darkened room with the monitor up bright and gamma turned up are just a pain..(Excuse the pun!)

Variety is the answer. Make it nice and bright and cheery on the outside and dark, gloomy and scary on the inside. Reality dictates total pitch darkness for tombs with Lara holdng a torch. I tried this in my Gateway to Menouthis level. I thought it worked.

But I don`t like the general Deus Ex/Matrix type trend of making games dark both literaly and in general. I`m currently playing Return to Castle Wolfenstein which is the best game I have played in a long long time. And there`s no darkness in it at all!

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Will Gell
Download Raidon.. http://www.wflg.clara.co.uk/music/raidon.mp3

[This message has been edited by wgell (edited 12-13-2001).]

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TRoosevelt_26
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From:USA
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posted 12-13-2001 11:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TRoosevelt_26   Click Here to Email TRoosevelt_26     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you, KrisGR. I value your opinion highly - wonderfully - magnificently. If it were not for people like you I don't know how I'd keep on going. Assuredly I do have your opinion, and I want you to know that anytime you have another, you me e-mail it to me and I will frame it.

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TRoosevelt_26
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From:USA
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posted 12-13-2001 12:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TRoosevelt_26   Click Here to Email TRoosevelt_26     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks, Will Gell! That is exactly what I'm doing. There are places where the roof has caved in and you can see to the outside (loading_screen2 is a shot of this, actually) and the level starts out in the bright outside along the banks of the Nile and ends when you exit the tomb into one of the many temples Ramses II built. There is also an excursion into an archeological dig in the middle, so there is quite a bit of light. Thanks for the confirmation, though, about keeping it dark inside.

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qbg
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Posts: 114
From:Newtown, Powys, Wales
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 12-13-2001 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for qbg   Click Here to Email qbg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Netslider:

I tryed to make one level like that: Nevada Desert.


Is that right? It just so happens I just finished my Nevada Desert a couple of weeks ago. It was my first level I ever created, so it is not very "Tomb Raidery". But I did develop skills from it. I have no desire to upload it... not until I improve it.

Anyway, I am not one for darkness. Some darkness is fine, but there is a limit before I say "F**k it".

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psiko
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Posts: 759
From:unconsciousness
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 12-14-2001 03:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for psiko   Click Here to Email psiko     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
there could be a new "kind" of levels...

...maybe the "technorganic" open space levels...

...and maybe very soon...

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KrisGR
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Posts: 269
From:Athens-Greece
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 12-14-2001 08:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KrisGR   Click Here to Email KrisGR     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
TRoosevelt 26 are you been sarcastic or is it my imagination?If you are that was very rude to someone that tried to help you if not i apologize.If you don't want me i will not reply to your posts anymore.

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Phabius Phodes
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Posts: 437
From:Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 12-14-2001 10:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Phabius Phodes   Click Here to Email Phabius Phodes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Contrast. Thatīs the trick.

Iīve heard people saying my levels are a bit dark in the internal areas. But others said the contrast between outside and inside was very well made. Personally I like to work a bit more on the lights to make the atmosphere good.
I donīt like bright internal areas, they look unrealistic. But I donīt like complete darkness.
To avoid the unnatural difference of light between an outside room and its joining internal room, I use to place a bright light or spot light in the entrance of the internal room. It blends magically and it looks like the sun is entering the room by the door. Itīs useful too for windows and grates. A spotlight works better, but sometimes itīs necessary to place a normal light bulb as well. Specially when the entrance is big.

In dark sewers or caves, green lights are good, but the ambience light of these places should be low.

To me, light is one of the most difficult issues to deal with the Editor. Lights work only on a single room, they donīt light adjoining rooms, so if itīs a collection of stacked rooms for example, we need to set the lights accordingly for every room in the stack. It can be difficult depending on the shape and size of the rooms. Effect lights are useful for dark corners but they only light the floor, not the walls around. Shades are difficult to deal with, as they donīt behave like natural shadows.

As the Editor shows the rooms darker than the actual game, itīs a matter of testing everytime.

All in all, you can make good rooms easily, but youīll have to work hard to achieve good lights.

But in a simple reply to this topic, I prefer dark internal areas.

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Suzie Croft
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Posts: 150
From:Cyberspace
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 12-14-2001 10:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Suzie Croft   Click Here to Email Suzie Croft     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm making a completly dark level at the mo.

Testing it is **** .

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TRoosevelt_26
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Posts: 44
From:USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 12-14-2001 12:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TRoosevelt_26   Click Here to Email TRoosevelt_26     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
KrisGR - sorry if you took the tone of the post wrong. I've been up till 11:00 at earliest and up at 4:00 AM at latest almost every morning for the past two weeks working on a set of levels, and was tired and just wrote down the first thing that came to mind. Actually, I thought you sounded a little irritated (I'm a veteran TR player and love the tombs, but oh, well) and was trying to say something uninflammatory in a friendly sort of way (I guess don't try that when you're tired, huh?). I probably should have put a grinny face with the post to make the intent clear, but you know now. Thanks for the input,
- TRoosevelt_26

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psiko
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From:unconsciousness
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 12-14-2001 03:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for psiko   Click Here to Email psiko     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yes, but in tech levels you can put high lights in internal ambientations like neon lights without being so "unrealistic"...

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bob5
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Posts: 618
From:SC
Registered: May 2001

posted 12-14-2001 04:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bob5   Click Here to Email bob5     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Haven't been reading this post, but check out my level:

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KrisGR
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Posts: 269
From:Athens-Greece
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 12-15-2001 12:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KrisGR   Click Here to Email KrisGR     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
TRoosevelt_26 that's ok i understand but you must admite that your phrase

[Quote]Orinally posted by TRoosevelt_26:
.....and I want you to know that anytime you have another, you me e-mail it to me and I will frame it.

sounded bad.I am sure if you read it now that you are more relaxed,at least i hope you are,you will see that is easy for someone to get the wrong idea.I think too that should have put a smile.I also wrote that if i am mistaken i apologize.Well i hope now that we cleared that we can be friends.

[This message has been edited by KrisGR (edited 12-15-2001).]

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Wee Bald Man
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Posts: 488
From:Left Luggage Locker #8, Heathrow Airport, London
Registered: May 2001

posted 12-15-2001 12:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wee Bald Man   Click Here to Email Wee Bald Man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Way to go KrisGR and TRoosevelt_26!

bob5 - LOL!! Love your level, very film noir!

WBM


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When asked, "What do you think of Western Civilisation?" Mahatma Ghandi replied, "It would be a good idea."

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Silent Viper
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Posts: 158
From:Ehlhalten(near Frankfurt)/->Germany
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 12-15-2001 03:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Silent Viper   Click Here to Email Silent Viper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've nothing against dark,but against tombs

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Data
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Posts: 940
From:Omicron Theta science colony
Registered: May 2001

posted 12-15-2001 05:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Data   Click Here to Email Data     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I believe there can be dark areas, however areas of importance should be of an acceptable illumination. The dark areas could then be less important areas.
I feel that the player should always feel he/she is getting the better of it; it can be so frustrating otherwise and would usually result in a non completion of that particular level.

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'ZING' is not a word that I am familiar with, however I will make an exception to 'YOINK'.

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TRoosevelt_26
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Posts: 44
From:USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 12-15-2001 07:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TRoosevelt_26   Click Here to Email TRoosevelt_26     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for understanding, KrisGR. You're right, I did sound irritable. But I'm much more relaxed now - I just found out from Aktrekker that I need not use LARA_START_POS to go to my next level (and next, and next...), and I'm just today finishing my third level in my Cliff Tomb at Akhetaton series, Tell el Amarna. It should be ready for download by Christmas. Hope you like it and have a merry Christmas!

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Limp Bizkit
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Posts: 158
From:Ridderkerk, The Netherlands
Registered: May 2001

posted 12-15-2001 12:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Limp Bizkit   Click Here to Email Limp Bizkit     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't really care about that...

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TRoosevelt_26
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Posts: 44
From:USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 12-15-2001 04:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TRoosevelt_26   Click Here to Email TRoosevelt_26     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Err...to whom were you speaking, LB?

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