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Author
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Topic: triangles to bmp's!!!! please!!!!
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billy the kid2
Junior Member Posts: 13
From:
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-13-2001 08:46 AM
   
Howdy Pardners...
The next time you programmers out there are feeling generous what about a program that will take a group of textures (the face of an SAS guard...cos there all triangles)and make one bmp out of them so's the artistic types like what some of us are...don't have to struggle to change a face.... any mileage in this project???? BillyIP: Logged |
aktrekker
Member Posts: 809
From:WA, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 12-13-2001 11:06 AM
It is possible, and not too difficult. I've thought we need something like that. But there are some things you would have to be aware of.
1) Because of texture compression (eliminating duplicate or unused textures), some of the textures you get can be used by more than one object.
2) The order of the textures would be fairly random. That means all the face textures might not be together in the shape of a face.
3) You would have to put the textures back in the same place in the WAD/TR file. You could not change the order of the textures.
4) Adding/Deleting textures is possible, but would require an entire program to manage it.It is actually a little more complicated, since you have to export the textures for all of the meshes that makeup an object. They are not necessarily all together.
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Raider Of Tombs' Clone
Member Posts: 144
From:The mining ship Red Dwarf
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 12-13-2001 01:28 PM
Yes, TP could probably do it, but it would have to be for a specific wad - perhaps a standard wad could be made with just the SAS guard - and the program would produce the guard object with the new face. I have taken a look at the guard, and the textures are squares and rectangles, not triangles. I pieced them together as best I could:
 You would have to draw a really stretched out face that goes from ear to ear to get a good effect.
[This message has been edited by Raider Of Tombs' Clone (edited 12-13-2001).] IP: Logged |
billy the kid2
Junior Member Posts: 13
From:
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-13-2001 02:16 PM
It would be easier for some one who can draw/paint etc to make up a new face than to have to deal with dozens of textures. Just to throw an extra ingrediant in this problem. I've put a pushable block in my current level, it has four blocks of textures on one face. Nearly all the textures in TRLE are based on a square. Therefore, it would look more real if the pushable block was one whole square rather than four pieces of stone making up one large one. It seems to me a good idea to be able to have a program that will do (maybe???) all these things???? Billy.IP: Logged |
craziej2k
Member Posts: 147
From:in front of my PC
Registered: May 2001
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posted 12-13-2001 03:26 PM
To use different textures on the block just add an item to the wad that U wont use, and just use it's texture spaces to place more block textures.
Well that's what I do anywayCrazie J ------------------
If ingnorance is bliss I'm in heaven!!! IP: Logged |
billy the kid2
Junior Member Posts: 13
From:
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-13-2001 03:44 PM
I know what you mean, I've just changed the textures on my block by copying from the tga textures. My point was that when you stand back and look at a block it has four textured panels that make up one side, in other words, the texture is tiled! it would look more like a rock if it was only one tile, not four. BillyIP: Logged |
Raider Of Tombs' Clone
Member Posts: 144
From:The mining ship Red Dwarf
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 12-13-2001 03:53 PM
Objects are not textured using the level .tga's. They are textured with their own texture map based on the objects in the wad. Making the block's four sections on each side into one would make textures more blurry. Four is much better.IP: Logged |
billy the kid2
Junior Member Posts: 13
From:
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-14-2001 02:41 PM
Very true friend 'Raiders of Tombs', BUT using Strpix3 and a good paint pro' (I use Photoshop Lite) you CAN save and swap images as bmps...any way, I take your point and I agree 100% about the stretch factor!!! I had'nt thought of that. Still, I hope some generous programmer will still have a go at combining the squares/triangle (whatever) to make one complete bmp... I'm convinced this would make it possible to have new villians in TRLE. At least the faces will look different. Billy IP: Logged |
Raider Of Tombs' Clone
Member Posts: 144
From:The mining ship Red Dwarf
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 12-14-2001 03:32 PM
Yes, I know you can export textures in strpix3 - see pics above. Have you emailed TP yet?IP: Logged |
Wee Bald Man
Member Posts: 490
From:Left Luggage Locker #8, Heathrow Airport, London
Registered: May 2001
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posted 12-15-2001 02:01 AM
This is an age old problem for artists. The solution is to use 3D paint programs which allow you to paint directly onto the object. 3D Studio MAX and Maya both offer this capability using third-party plug-ins. In order to "paint in 3D" for TR you would have to export all of the textures assigned to an object and re-assign them to their parent object in MAX or Maya. Then, using a 3D paint plug-in, you could paint the faces. As Turbo explained, you would have to take care not to change the textures which are used multiple times such as skin and hair. Once finished, you could then export the whole lot back out to TR via Strpix.WBM IP: Logged |
billy the kid2
Junior Member Posts: 13
From:
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-15-2001 03:50 AM
This is getting interesting... for the past 12 months I've been getting my teath around 'Milkshape 3D', would I be able to use this the way you've described. I'm familiar with it's texturing method and to be honest, the price for a copy of MAX would be out of my price range (it is very expensive) and as I don't want a pirate copy of MAX, I am, as they say in Billiards...snookered!... As for me asking Mr Pascal to make this bmp program, I suspect he has greater fish to fry than making this particular software. But yes if anyone can, he could!!!! BillyIP: Logged |
Raider Of Tombs' Clone
Member Posts: 144
From:The mining ship Red Dwarf
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 12-15-2001 05:01 AM
Wait! You can do it with metasequoia! Hold on, I'll post a pic!IP: Logged |
Turbo Pascal
Member Posts: 114
From:
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 12-15-2001 06:53 AM
>Still, I hope some generous programmer will >still have a go at combining the >squares/triangle (whatever) to make one >complete bmp... I'm convinced this would >make it possible to have new villians in >TRLE. At least the faces will look >different. Billy I don;t understand what are you requesting here, First, there are not "triangular" textures pieces in the texture tables, all textures ALREADY ARE RECTANGULAR, there are only triangular polys in the model. So you can draw any character's face that you want with CAD program, you can use all triangles that you need and then with strpix3 you map a rectangular texture into the triangles, then use CTRL+ALT+click over this triangular poly (do that more that once in the same poly) for select how the rectangular texture will be maped. Please be sure that you realy understand for what is used CTRL+ALT+click key in strpix3 (triangular texture map selecter).
Turbo Pascal
IP: Logged |
billy the kid2
Junior Member Posts: 13
From:
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-15-2001 07:58 AM
I'll give an example of the type of program I'm talking about. For the last 12 months I've been using Milkshape 3D, which for using in Half_life is very good. When you made a face in this 3D program it or any 3D model, you could simply highlight the whole model, go to the part in milkshape that let's you add textures (or skins) and you can add texture to that object, that's it, done. It's a different story when you try to do this with TR. Some time ago I tried to alter the textures in the face of the arab guide that takes Lara through the Tomb of Sett, but when you try to work on these textures you will find his mouth is one piece of texture, his cheeks are another, his eyes are (two) seperate textures...and so on. From an artists point of view, this is to many textures, if we add skin or texture to these faces in ONE GO, this would make making villians more interesting. It would certainly speed up texturing. BillyIP: Logged |
Wee Bald Man
Member Posts: 490
From:Left Luggage Locker #8, Heathrow Airport, London
Registered: May 2001
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posted 12-15-2001 12:12 PM
Hi billy the kid2,Unfortunately because TR4 is an old engine (by today's standards) the texture rendering method used is to apply textures to each face, as opposed to using UV Mapping (the method used in Milkshape and other 3D programs) which allows you to "wrap" a texture around an object. What this means is that, in TR, some faces are using only a few pixels of, for example, skin colour for the skin areas (because you can't see stretching if it's a continous tone). These incredibly small skin textures are adjacent to larger ones like the eyes. To save yet more memory, everything is flipped horizontally (symmetry is reflected). Due to the huge differences in texture sizes this means (as you have found out) that it is not very easy to work with from an artist's point-of-view. The method of "3D painting" I mentioned is an extremely expensive one to get access to because it is fairly specialist (five years ago it didn't even exist). Like technology always does, it should become more easily available and cheaper in future. In the meantime, you can either: a) Adjust the DXF files so that the front of objects such as the human head are flatter. This would allow for a set of larger (more workable) human face textures. However, you would have to sacrifice textures somewhere else in the WAD though. b) Learn to work with Strpix and your paint program side by side until you become good at this fiddly way of doing things. Not ideal, but this acquired skill will save texture memory and allow for more variety in your level. Pity the original artists who worked on TR and many of the earlier games and have had to put up with this horrible working methods for years.. The good news is... gMax. This release will make everybody's lives easier, particularly for the artists because it will utilise 3D Studio Max's architecture and therefore the UV Mapping will become available (no more tiny, weeny little textures.. hurrah!  ). WBM IP: Logged |
billy the kid2
Junior Member Posts: 13
From:
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-16-2001 03:17 AM
Thank you Wee Bald Man.
Thanks for explaining so clearly about mapping/texturing etc... yes, I do feel sorry for the designers of TR, what a pain it must have been. It looks like I'm back to plan 'A', Strpix3 and Photoshop lite.... I guess you can understand then why I suggested a program to overcome this annoying problem of mapping in TR? A question on gMax, can I get a copy from of the net? is it going to help with working in TRLE, will this cost an arm and a leg to buy?????? BillyIP: Logged |
Wee Bald Man
Member Posts: 490
From:Left Luggage Locker #8, Heathrow Airport, London
Registered: May 2001
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posted 12-16-2001 04:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by billy the kid2:
A question on gMax, can I get a copy from of the net? is it going to help with working in TRLE, will this cost an arm and a leg to buy?????? Billy
Hi BTK2, gMax is free but only works with games that support it (if enough people vote for it to be supported, TR Next generation will be possible to customise using gmax - but no game before December 2001 has used gmax so old TRs will not be supported by it). Info and download from here: http://www.discreet.com/products/gmax/ Also, read these: 006479.html 006622.html WBM IP: Logged |
billy the kid2
Junior Member Posts: 13
From:
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-16-2001 09:20 AM
To Wee Bald Man
I did check out the 2 ref's you gave for gMax. Many thanks, very useful. BillyIP: Logged |
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