posted 12-20-2001 12:30 PM               

I closed those topics because they were offensive and provoking fights
I have tried to communicate with the people in question privately via e-mail, but they weren't willing to discuss it, didn't reply and started posting my e-mails on a different forum, which resulted in bashing

so please keep in mind this forum is for the discussion of TRLE related issiues, not for personal matters

I will never ignore a reasonable question, so if you have any, feel free to e-mail me and I will do my best to answer you

and don't worry, you have said nothing offensive, so I won't close/delete this thread

ps. I don't close threads just because I have "the power", but because it is an Eidos rule, I am here for YOU, keeping the forum clean of hatefull and offensive text

posted 12-21-2001 11:54 AM               

It doesn't seem fair to close a thread and not reveal why the decision was made. The member may not realise their offensive behaviour and therefore would need to be told where they were going wrong. If they are not told, they won't learn. Also, privately emailing those responsible might be a good idea, but it also has its bad points. As Driber said, they may not reply etc, but also it is crucial that other members see the developments and we can learn from others mistakes.

To further my comments I would also like to point out that by not leaving any reason for the member to see why their post was closed or reply editted gives them the idea that the moderator dislikes them (I have experience) or as mentioned somwhere above, a lack of respect between higher forces and members grows. This brings about the collapse of the communities all members have been actively trying to save.

I have my wise head on today so I am using it at will.....beware!!! lol

I hope everyone can go from this reply with a wider perspective. Even I have learnt from myself in the time it took to write this reply.

Peace out
Moose562

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Dare to cross a MOOSEY STUB and CARAMBAAA
--he'll become your highbunder of doom

Overwhelmed to be Stub 12

posted 12-21-2001 02:21 PM               

Oh and WBM I couldn't agree more. I think Driber moderates moderately (geddit)....ok enough jokes!!!

Driber rock on, ok?!

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Overwhelmed to be Stub 12
Thehighbunder of doom

posted 12-21-2001 08:49 PM               

The job of moderator is not one of fame and fortune, rather a title of responsibility and dedication! He who accepts that title also accepts the consequences of offending a few in an effort to maintain a TOPIC RELATED forum for the majority to visit and benefit from. If all moderators of any/all forums were able to be manipulated or their convictions swayed by 'Public opinion' , then the position of 'Moderator' (however unappreciated) is reduced to that of 'Member with power'!(which many seem to think it is) IT IS NOT!

Speaking for myself and I think most past and present (future?) moderators of this and other forums, the job is a (usually) thankless one that requires a great deal of time and commitment to a voluntary position. Not because we need to see our "name in lights", but because we have decided to help in maintaining a worth while endeavor and are trying to keep it aimed in the right direction and free of distracting and obusive content(fights and arguments).

In agreement with Moose's comment, simply closing or deleting a thread without giving a reason is unacceptable; however, usually the content of the thread itself will explain the reason for it's being closed. And moving a thread to another forum (O.T.,Series,etc...)and closing it here, does not mean the topic is not appreciated, rather that it belongs elsewhere! In the rare instance that a thread is deleted, it is either by the original posters decision, or because it is completely out of hand to start with or has no possible benefit to the community.

So, in short, closing, deleting, and editing threads is not something that is done with a passe' attitude, it is serious business that requires thought and reason! If the members posting threads/replies gave half as much consideration to their comments as the moderators give to closing them, then there would be considerably less 'hard feelings', and we could all return to the COMMUNITY that we really are!

Tom

posted 12-22-2001 02:26 AM               

You have described PRECISELY my experience of, and feelings about, being a moderator.

It may save many hours of frantic typing and little red angry faces if we could put your description of the role in to the 'TRLE FAQ and Community' link under the heading: "Just what the heck is a moderator anyway?"

WBM

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When asked, "What do you think of Western Civilisation?" Mahatma Ghandi replied, "It would be a good idea."

posted 12-22-2001 10:19 AM               

I will now answer Moose's questions, my replies will be marked in bold text:

quote:

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Originally posted by moose562:
I personally think it is only out of courtesy that anyone of a higher authority who closes a thread for any reason should reveal why they closed/edited the thread/post.

in the rare occasion I don't post an explanation, the reason for closing it is very obvious and in my opinion clear to see if you just read the posts in the thread. when I edit posts, it's usually because of offensive content and I usually do not give warnings in the edited post, because that can lead to people counter to that warning if they do not agree. so in that case, I just filter out the "bad words" and e-mail the poster privately, explaining calmly what they have posted is not material for the TRLE forum and I kindly ask them not to do it again. if the member simply replies with an agreement, I am glad he/she understands that offensive language is not tolerated here, but unfortunately it doesn't always work that way. sometimes the member whom I e-mailed privately, does not reply to my e-mail if he/she does not agree with it, but he/she posts my e-mails on the forum, trying to get support from other people and provoking fights. we have recently experienced this with Silent Viper, who kept provoking fights on here after I warned him not to. we "silenced" him for it, but after ignoring the dreaded message "you have no permission to post on this forum", he quickly registered a new account and trying to provoke more fights by posting under his new name, which someone is not allowed to do once been banned.
so in short, it is not always wise to post why a thread has been closed, a post has been edited or deleted, to keep the forum clean of fights. so in that case, I just e-mail the person privately, but I never intentionally leave someone in the dark

It doesn't seem fair to close a thread and not reveal why the decision was made. The member may not realise their offensive behaviour and therefore would need to be told where they were going wrong. If they are not told, they won't learn. Also, privately emailing those responsible might be a good idea, but it also has its bad points. As Driber said, they may not reply etc, but also it is crucial that other members see the developments and we can learn from others mistakes.

if all members were open for reason, it would be much easier, but not everyone possesses this ability. if a person is not willing to listen to reason, or even reply to my comments, drastic actions such as closing threads or even banning have to be taken. I don't enjoy flipping that switch, because I feel it's a waste of time for me, but also for the member who is provoking fights. there are so many things out there in the real world that you can spend your time on. I usually see that when people start causing fights and turn people against each other and trying to manipulate other members to get their hate towards a moderator spread, is something done as a result of loneliness. I have figured this pattern out a long time ago: the fighting usually is at a peak on Saturday nights. when everyone is out clubbing and partying, a Troll sits behind his computer and hates it that he's not "out there" as well, so he tries to fill a void by making virtual fights, this works like an aphrodisiac and the person forgets about his loneliness for a while
please note that this does not apply to everyone who is online on Saturday nights and I don't intent to offend anyone by this, because I too have spend Saturday nights on here, only I use it for positive contribution
so I merely want to point out one of the possible reasons for people's attempt to start a virtual fight
I'm writing this, so people can draw their own conclusion from this and I hope this will open people's eyes to get out there and do something useful with their lives, instead of trying to turn people against each other and trying to make them look bad by accusing them behind their backs for things they did not do
So I hope my bit will help people understand that there's more to life and I hope these words are of any use.

To further my comments I would also like to point out that by not leaving any reason for the member to see why their post was closed or reply edited gives them the idea that the moderator dislikes them (I have experience) or as mentioned somewhere above, a lack of respect between higher forces and members grows. This brings about the collapse of the communities all members have been actively trying to save.

Let me make this clear once and for all: I do NOT close, delete or edit something because I don't like the person who posted it. I am very professional and I do not let any personal feelings get in the way of moderating this forum. I moderate fair and by the rules and if some people see this as a personal attack, then they have got the wrong picture of me. People who are really close to me, know that I am a completely honest person who doesn't lie. I know that there are some people out there who still think I'm playing a game and taking actions just for personal reasons.....and I'm really sorry they feel that way, but I can assure you that's simply not true, as I always play by the book

I have my wise head on today so I am using it at will.....beware!!! lol

I hope everyone can go from this reply with a wider perspective. Even I have learnt from myself in the time it took to write this reply.

I'm curious, what have you learned? It might be useful for us all if you tell us

Peace out
Moose562

[/B]

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So to sum it all up: I am always open for a reasonable conversation, I give a lot of my free time to this forum, I play by the book, I'm honest and I will never ignore questions about the way the forum is being run, I do appreciate and listen to everyone's input, as long as the question is calmly asked, because I won't respond to personal attacks
And these are the characteristics needed for moderating a professional forum, as been set by the forum administrators.

I'm sorry to ramble on this far and I know some of you might see this as OT, but it is not, for it is an attempt to help move our community into a more positive direction and it's related to the way the forum is being run

posted 12-22-2001 01:47 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by [Daniel]:
but now I know that I was wrong

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You were not wrong at all. Your input was just as valid as everyone elses.

Oh and Driber, I am not going to repeat myself. I think you should read my post again if you can't see what I have learnt. I explained it all there.

posted 12-22-2001 02:57 PM               

I do agree with him. I admire his moderating skills. It can be annoying to see my topics close, but I do see the topic drifting away to oblivion.

posted 12-23-2001 05:56 AM               

i just think as a RULE it is only polite to disclose why a thread was closed or editted. i like it when mods edit posts and tell why it was editted. that is fine, it is when it isn't it annoys me.

dribe has always as far as i can remember, offered explainations for himself. Although others mods around can't claim that and believe they are excempt from this. that is wrong and unfair. it causes barriers instantly.
cant anyone see this?

i guess i am screaming in the desert again, huh?

posted 12-23-2001 06:30 AM               

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Overwhelmed to be Stub 13
The highbunder of doom

posted 01-05-2002 05:10 AM               

Col.

posted 01-05-2002 11:56 AM               

But now, I'm afraid I must leave you all, for I am quitting my mod positi.....errrr....not! lol

seriously, this thread has proven that it's possible to resolve issues if they are calmly discussed, which ultimately leads this forum into a more positive direction where people can better focus on level editing

posted 01-06-2002 11:02 AM               

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Check Out My Site!!!

posted 01-07-2002 08:01 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Driber_IF:

seriously, this thread has proven that it's possible to resolve issues if they are calmly discussed, which ultimately leads this forum into a more positive direction where people can better focus on level editing

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posted 01-14-2002 02:01 AM               

Secondaly, I didn't know you were on vacation, if I knew, I wouln't of complained. The only reson I opened the birthday topic was because I thought I would be nice to put into the Community page, it was just and idea. But I do hope you understood my worries that this forum wasn't being propley run, but now you are back, it is. I hope you, and everyone else understands.

Sam.

P.S. I'm am currently making new WAD's, do you want to host them on your site Driber?

posted 01-14-2002 02:24 AM               

But if there are complaints about moderators, it is common courtesy not to post them on the forum, but to e-mail it to the moderator privately. Making such threads only start fights and as you have seen, other members will jump in and drag up things from the past that doesn't have anything to do with the initial topic, but only contribute in the fight by throwing gasoline on the flames.

If you understand that and see that complaints should be e-mailed in private, you apologies will be accepted.

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