posted 01-14-2002 05:54 AM               

I have enjoyed every one of the games in your Tomb Raider series and was naturally pleased when I heard that a level editor was planned for inclusion with Tomb Raider: Chronicles. I have used the editor and found it to be quite user-friendly (although not as wide-ranging in scope as I had hoped), lacking only a fully comprehensive manual with a list of OCB settings for all objects to make it fully useful.

Speaking for myself and others, you could place yourself in the proverbial win/win situation by producing salable versions of the level editors used in creating Tomb Raider, Tomb Raider Gold, Tomb Raider II, Tomb Raider II Gold, Tomb Raider III, Tomb Raider: The Lost Artifact and Tomb Raider: Chronicles.

With the advent of Tomb Raider: Next Generation, the engines used for the above games are now no more than white elephants, useless in their former capacities.

But even white elephants have some commercial value, and the value of these is not to be underestimated. Literally hundreds of thousands of further level editors could easily be sold at a large profit, as practically no money is needed to produce an item salable to the public.
While such level editors would require at least as much space as—if not more than—the actual game, each set could easily fit into a duplex CD case, given the following examples:

TOMB RAIDER includes resource files (textures, WAD objects & sounds) for…
Tomb Raider & Tomb Raider Gold: Unfinished Business

TOMB RAIDER II includes resource files for…
Tomb Raider II: Starring Lara Croft & Tomb Raider II Gold: The Golden Mask of Tornarsuk

TOMB RAIDER III includes resource files for…
Tomb Raider III: The Adventures of Lara Croft & Tomb Raider: The Lost Artifact

TOMB RAIDER IV & V includes resource files for…
Tomb Raider IV: The Last Revelation & The Times Expedition & Tomb Raider V: Chronicles

Two welcome and simple additions — both fairly easy to include — would be a WAD editor and a list of OCB settings for each engine.

With the former much space could be saved by including all relevant objects (i.e., capable of inclusion in a WAD) on the CD only once — in a folder, not a WAD file — rather than in several different WADs and making it possible for the user to create custom WADs by selecting any items from Tomb Raider and Tomb Raider Gold to include in a WAD; or items from Tomb Raider II and Tomb Raider II Gold in another, etc.

Given the enormous popularity of the Tomb Raider series, it is inevitable that some — if not much — of its traditional constituency will not be drawn, but turned off, by Tomb Raider: Next Generation - as have many by the announcement of Lara's "new self" and the "darker themes" that will come into play in this new game - not to mention other playable characters besides Lara. These people can be depended on to jump at the chance to create ‘traditional’ Tomb Raider levels and will easily make it worth your while to market past level editors to the public.

While Tomb Raider: Next Generation can be counted on to attract a new generation of customers to the Tomb Raider franchise, the diehard Tomb Raider players mentioned above will certainly wish for new games in the traditional Tomb Raider style. This, however, is not a viable option. Without a change of pace, the Tomb Raider/Lara Croft franchise cannot hope to remain among the leading software titles far into the foreseeable future; therefore the money spent creating a new ‘traditional’ Tomb Raider title would show almost no — if any — profit.

As I have stated, the release of all five level editors in their entirety can only benefit everyone involved and will enable both your companies to bring in profits that outpace the expense involved by literally one hundred-fold. I strongly urge you to resolve upon this course of action.

In closing,

We, the undersigned, do release Core Design LTD and Eidos Interactive PLC, their staff and employees from any and all obligations, responsibilities and liabilities both stated and implied in this document or any other, towards ourselves. We release our control over any ideas or concepts enumerated in this document, whether explicitly stated and implied, to Core Design LTD and Eidos Interactive PLC to do with what they wish, and absolve ourselves of any connection with said ideas. If Core Design LTD and Eidos Interactive PLC shall decide to make use of said ideas, they shall owe us neither money nor anything else, the ideas and this letter being the sole property of Core Design LTD and Eidos Interactive PLC as of January 14, 2002. These things we do testify and affirm.

Signed,

Jonathan Michael Harrison – PO Box 44 – Fisher IL 61843-0044 – USA

posted 01-14-2002 10:24 AM               

When I first read the trle manual it said that there was no way to change laras appearance, this has been proved wrong. I realised by waching Tomb Raider Documentaries that Lara is a highly protected figure and Ultimately they dont want us to be able to create a fully working Tomb Raider Game with all the trimmings anyone who understands the true nature of marketing will realise this.

Its true that the next generation of Tomb Raider will be completely different, but using the excuse that is is out dated wont work , technology is getting older but there not going to just give the whole franchise away they want us to buy TR not create it.

Sorry to sound so depressive I see it as a realistic point of view, I belive that TRLE will become Universal eventually, just look how far it has come in just a year and a half.

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Currently Working On; The Dragon Ball TR Saga

posted 01-14-2002 12:40 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by GokuZ:
at the end of the day It comes down to Money.

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I'm so agreed with you, But we're the money for them.
Without uss they would be broke now.
So there will be more reasons to make something like this.
In the end We are the one who will be giving away money for a beautifull extra.
I'm not going to beg, (I'm not crazy) but atleast think about it.

posted 01-14-2002 04:59 PM               

I´ve talked about this sometimes, in earlier post here and in tombraiders forum. For sure I would buy things like that. But unfortunately I think they won´t do it.

posted 01-15-2002 01:47 AM               

For that if they release extra aditional cd's or other things to increase the ammount of tools and wads we have, i will buy it to.

But also look on this side, if we knew we only had limited objects, limited this and that. Would you still buy the level editor ?
I would, cause we all started building a square room and a lara in, a few traps, doors etc. Maby Core/Eidos planned to do it this way, then maby later they are going to release extra cd's. Well i certainly hope they do.
Some people here say they wont, but if they dont, the level editor will "die" thats what i think. Cause already it is hard to create new levels with new enemies. Who isnt tired of the dog, i am. Who dont wants a Final end boss, or even better, to be able to create a final end boss.
So i Agree with TRoosevelt_26, i can understand other peoples opinnion, Some of you think they wont release it, well that still unknown, Maby they will, i think they will. After all this series plus that Tombraider Next Generation is going to be the last tombraider ( Chronicles was planned to be the last ) thats going to be released. I cant imagine wich other game had more then 5 series in history. Worms ? Red Alert ? Age of Empires ? I cant think of it, maby there are more series of some games, but there rare. If eidos/core dont give us anything, then Trle is good as gone. People will run out building levels. And after TRNG is finished, well, 2 options, Tombraider is forgotten over few years or Eidos/Core keeps releasing newer Series. I doubt it.

Signed, Yasin Topcu

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The best thing and last thing is to try ( ^_^ )=b

posted 01-15-2002 02:08 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by TRoosevelt_26:
Please everyone sign this who agrees with it!!

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I agree. Just one question. Are you planning on sending this to anyone, or just here on the forum?

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KingSpyder
KingSpyder@thefreesite.com

KingSpyder's World
The Doctor Who Transcripts Project
The Original Tomb Raider Conversion Project
The Dark! Your Source For Video Tape Labels!

posted 01-15-2002 11:11 AM            

Most games these days come with LE's anyway, it helps buld the community. Personally I think Core should think abotu implementing this for future games - a lot of people, once they're done with a game, might want to experiment with the engine, and try things out for themselves. There are a lot of talented people out there stuck working for McD's or somesuch, if more games companies let people play about with LE's etc then maybe their games would be of a better quality, we all know what could have benifited form that *cough*Chronicles*cough*/......

posted 01-15-2002 06:03 PM               

Signed,

posted 01-17-2002 02:11 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Pancho_TR:
They've made good enough money with the 5 original & the 3 golds. You can have objects from those games, you don't need them to make more money from some other Level editor.

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If everyone would think like that, we will all get stuck in an endless loop of the public not wanting to pay and the developers not willing to give it with a loss of money.

Yes, it will be a loss, because publicising and distributing such an add-on cd DOES cost money, and that will only work in counter-production of the making of TR56.

Face it, Core and Eidos are companies and companies run on profit, it's the way the economy works.

quote:

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Originally posted by Yasin:
Maby Core/Eidos planned to do it this way, then maby later they are going to release extra cd's.

I don't think so Yasin, if Core was planning on making Eidos publish add-on cd's, they would definitely have done it by now

I cant imagine wich other game had more then 5 series in history. Worms ? Red Alert ? Age of Empires ?

Final Fantasy, and it's still going strong with the coming of the tenth version

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I too have my eyes wide open and I see it is a small chance that the other level editors will be released, but even if the chance is 0.0001% it is still definitely worth trying.
think about the gain/loss balance:
loss=losing 2 minutes of your life by writing a reply here
gain=well, I'm not even going to mention the gain, because it's such a huge list of wonderful things

so I am signing TRoosevelt's letter, with a final note that I too am prepared to pay a reasonable amount of money for a TRLE add-on CD.

posted 01-17-2002 03:04 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Driber_IF:

If everyone would think like that, we will all get stuck in an endless loop of the public not wanting to pay and the developers not willing to give it with a loss of money.

Yes, it will be a loss, because publicising and distributing such an add-on cd DOES cost money, and that will only work in counter-production of the making of TR56.

Face it, Core and Eidos are companies and companies run on profit, it's the way the economy works.

[This message has been edited by Driber_IF (edited 01-17-2002).]

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Hold on, maybe you're forgettin' that I live in Argentina, I have economy for brackfast & money for dinner; I understand they win/loose, but they've won good enough, they live from Lara & Tomb Raider. My point is: there are WADs including TR 1/2/3 stuff, just go for it, nice to be given everything without working, where would the fun be? Let me tell you something else, if Eidos realises this add-on CD, I won't hesitate to buy it, I'll be the first one on the store for buying it. What I want to mean is: we don't need to be begging Eidos to give us something if we can have it by ourselves. It seems to me I wasn't clear in my last message:

I AGREE, POINT ME IN: Elias Francisco Valdez, Eidos buyer

I'll tell you something else, If this ig going to work, then I'll send an e-mail to every TR fan including this, I WANT that stuff, but I'm not sure if those-lovely people-in Eidos are going to listen. Hope they do.

ONE MORE FINAL THING: I think I got it wrong: what you want is an editor for TR1-
3

posted 01-17-2002 03:30 AM               

I mean: we have the people, now what, we sit & wait?, they won't hear us: this is my idea:
>> Why don't you try sending a message to Core Desing with the original Idea & eveyone's name, original name.

If they are like Argentinian bussiness people they're gonna say: "It's Eidos work to realise CD's" & remember Core Design people are working on Next Generation

So, I sound like a pessimist, what do you say if instead of an add-on CD, we ask for downloable TR1/2/3 add-ons or 1/2/3 WADs & rest of stuff , I think it would be easier for them & faster for us, think about it, if they put it on CDs, how much time is it going to take? Also remember they have to addapt TR1-3 WADs to the new Level editor, or create/realise TR1-3 editor, so, if you have a TR2 level, the other people would need TR2 LE for playing it.

Let me be more clear: instead of a CD, we ask for downloable addapted stuff . I think it's easier & faster, without talking about prices & releasing dates

Roosevelt, you have the message, why don't you add our names & send it to Core/Eidos, who's gonna listen here?

posted 01-17-2002 04:42 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Pancho_TR:
If they are like Argentinian bussiness people they're gonna say: "It's Eidos work to realise CD's" & remember Core Design people are working on Next Generation

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actually, Core has to release the tools so that Eidos can publish it.[/b]

quote:

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So, I sound like a pessimist, what do you say if instead of an add-on CD, we ask for downloable TR1/2/3 add-ons or 1/2/3 WADs & rest of stuff , I think it would be easier for them & faster for us, think about it, if they put it on CDs, how much time is it going to take? Also remember they have to addapt TR1-3 WADs to the new Level editor, or create/realise TR1-3 editor, so, if you have a TR2 level, the other people would need TR2 LE for playing it.

Let me be more clear: instead of a CD, we ask for downloable addapted stuff . I think it's easier & faster, without talking about prices & releasing dates

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posted 01-17-2002 06:53 AM               

Yeah, Pancho, Core already has the level editors for 1 - 3, and there isn't just one, either. I remember when TR3 came out - the big draw was that they were able to create triangular faces (therefore making things such as domes possible) with the new level editor. Plus I have seen screenshots of the editors from TR2 and TR3, and they are certainly different, although a lot alike.

posted 01-19-2002 08:50 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by TRoosevelt_26:
*bump*

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