posted 02-18-2002 11:49 PM               

I said "I don't like those screenshot" and I even shouldn't have provided a reason. But I gave them, and all the same, you told me "you are jelous and you are making promotion to yourself" (never named myself, you insisted until I had to say something about me). I was insulted and still gave my reasons which weren't a must to give you for substain my opinion.

TR_26 found even some palms in the botanic garden of Rome to show what? he said "you don't do real things and you insult realily levels because you are not able" (and he named a painter to substain his opinion).

After a while discussing, we reached the geberal solution that "real levels" is a stupid thing BUT then they told me "why are you searching for reality in the game?"...

but weren't they who talked to me that I am not able to build real levels, and that was why I was jelous? SO now they are telling ME that "not reality" is good?...

After I spent all of the last days trying to speak my mind and you blamed me of "not reality"?

But piega's levels ARE for the reality, and they HAVE those errors. And you can like them as you want, but they ARE with errors. Reality or fantasy, interpretation or imitations of reality.

If I wouldn't have done anything, or wouldn't have said anything, that wasting and unworthy and orrible levels would have taken as an example of best projecting as he is "the best LD in the planet". This is, sorry for the word, elephant's sh*t.

This is dangerous expecially because it can be taken as example (sorry if you feel offended). And infact after showing those errors they were not able to reply in the same way, but telling "I still like it and the gameplay is good". Sure, you can like what you want, but you cannot say that what you want is good to eat, at least you are not able to provide a rational motivations like I did for I don't "like" them.

I can say "I like red" but it is different than to say "I like to waste history, art, level designing, and promote such a mixage of ages, styles, with ignorance, as the best way to do things".

I can start today a SHANGAI level. Without knowing anything and destroy all the Chinese civilization. And I can distrubute it as piega#2's level with my huge ignorance of Chinese civilization. What Geckokid could say? "what a wonderful job", like he said with prejudice to piega#1?

I suggest to do things you know. And if you don't know something, study. And if someone tells you that you are doing things wrong, don't tell him with prejudice "you are jelous, you are promoting your work". If someone tells you "you are misputting 7 civilization in the same room", don't reply "I like it all the same", or at least, try to learn from previous errors someone make you to notice now.

Because you can be free to misput 7 civilizations, but I can be free to tell that you are doing things wrong and you have no RIGHTS in this WORLD to tell me "jelous, you are promoting yourself, who did crown you the king of the level editor?"

And sorry if I still think (and I am still convinced) that THOSE errors are BIGGER than mine, as I simply speak about this wasting to avoid it, as that is a complete insult to the history, art, civilizations, level designing, and to people who study and are conscient of what they build.

posted 02-19-2002 01:59 AM               

still on your endless fight for the better of the TRLE levels, it seems. I have only read parts of the various threads related to this and saw that yet again it drifted a bit into the personal emotional corner (not foremost from your side, I know), so I may be commenting into the wrong direction here, but that all put aside, I believe GokuZ (I think) made an excellent point:

"If you want realism, GO OUTISDE".

I like that brief sentence because it illustrates that 80%+ of the folks associated with TRLE do this for fun and steal a few hours of their spare time to either build or play levels.

Very few have a passion in them like you have and that is why it is hard for them to understand all the discussion and nit-picking about screenshots of an upcoming level.

My personal count of played and reviewed levels is now at 419 and I can truly say I NEVER wasted a single thought about whether an object or texture belonged there or was out of place from a 'reality' standpoint - this is a game, it is not real and (as you know) I do not care whether textures and objects are newly designed or smartly re-used as long as they help achieve what they are supposed to achieve: create a fun gaming experience in a nice environment (real or not, I couldn't care less - although some consistency usually helps...)

...and all the talk about No1 Leveldesigner in the world? Well, I would say each player should and will find their own favorites and even if I had to name one, I would probably have to name a minimum of 10 straight away, (and yes the BIG "P"'s (piega and psiko) would be on my list) so what's the point of even arguing about it?

anyway - just my 2 cents worth for this round of the debate...

HAPPY RAIDING!
Michael.

posted 02-19-2002 03:20 AM            

As for mixing architectural styles, every civilization has examples of that. Japan, China, the middle-east, and many others mix modern architecture with their traditional architecture. In the US, we have mixtures of many styles. In the south we have Spanish influence. In the west (San Francisco) we have Chinese. In the east we have old English (victorian) and German influence.

posted 02-19-2002 03:25 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by psiko:
TR_26 found even some palms in the botanic garden of Rome to show what? he said "you don't do real things and you insult realily levels because you are not able" (and he named a painter to substain his opinion).

After a while discussing, we reached the geberal solution that "real levels" is a stupid thing BUT then they told me "why are you searching for reality in the game?"...

but weren't they who talked to me that I am not able to build real levels, and that was why I was jelous? SO now they are telling ME that "not reality" is good?...

....

Because [b]you can be free to misput 7 civilizations, but I can be free to tell that you are doing things wrong and you have no RIGHTS in this WORLD to tell me "jelous, you are promoting yourself, who did crown you the king of the level editor?"[/B]

---

posted 02-19-2002 10:04 AM               

Its just a game, and everyone should smash it into his head "this is a game" I liked that Aktrekker said,

-----------
ever seen a t-rex or mummy...
-----------

I think some people are just carrieing this level editing too far into reality. Absolutely, not thinking to create a level which is "totally reality"
i am not going to build a some kind of town with offices and bla bla just to express, the "reality" Cause there is none in level editing, your fantasy and inspiration does it all.

posted 02-19-2002 12:17 PM               

------------------
Oleg

posted 02-19-2002 12:44 PM            

The Level Editor was released to give the fans of Tomb Raider the opportunity of designing their own levels as they ever imagined them. There are no rules when you design a level that you mustn't brake so nobody can say that the levels of another hobby designer are wrong or not realistic. If I want to see something realistic I don't play a computer game, but go out with my friends or go on a holiday. Moreover nobody needs to be sad if anybody says that he doesn't like his level (The next question would be if it is necessary to say this in the internet or in a forum designed for sharing information not shlt). Favours are different and not everybody likes the same levels. Why do you take it so serious if a person that you have never seen in your life, and who you will probably never see, says that she doesn't like your levels?

My oppinion is that this quarrel is childish and primitive and has nothing lost in an OFFICIAL FORUM. Nobody is interested in such stupid things.

Be happy that CORE and EIDOS allowed us to share our Levels over the internet instead of quarreling.

posted 02-19-2002 02:22 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by psiko:
...Justin and TRoosevelt_26 told they would have start a fight and they did until that was closed, completely changing the topic discussion every time even with a very oculated and hidden way, so my hat's off to them as they were really good in doing this, even if I tried to stay quiet (sometimes someone told me: "how can you be that quiet and how can you have that strengh to answer again?"), because someone (most of the persons never said anything there because I wanted to be the only one in the beginning to substain my side) someone told me that he (they) were really in anger for some answers I received, and their blood was exploding to post something to substain my side, but they saw me again and again answering with quiet and calm...

---

But I'm glad that sometime someone said that you have the strength to answer us awful, hideous, Nazi-like, artless, history-wasting people with such quiet determination, such magnanimous grace - yes, even such overpowering calm. It makes me want to set up a shrine to you, Psiko, right here in my little hometown of Fisher. It will say: He tried to stay quiet.

quote:

---

...never named myself, you insisted until I had to say something about me...

---

quote:

---

...we reached the geberal solution that "real levels" is a stupid thing BUT then they told me "why are you searching for reality in the game?"...

---

quote:

---

but weren't they who talked to me that I am not able to build real levels, and that was why I was jelous? SO now they are telling ME that "not reality" is good?...at least you are not able to provide a rational motivations like I did for I don't "like" them...I can say "I like red" but it is different than to say "I like to waste history, art, level designing, and promote such a mixage of ages, styles, with ignorance, as the best way to do things"...

---

Thoughts to Psiko that don't involve quotes:
Psiko, I really don't want to fight with you, and I hope you realize I don't start fights. If I see somebody being grossly unfair to someone else who doesn't deserve it (like Piega), I join the fray on the good guy's side, okay?

And like someone else who will remain unquoted said, it is you who are closing these topics! You may have tried to stay quiet, but you didn't succeed very well. I can count much more easily the contributions I made in the disputed thread than the ones you did. Rejoinder after rejoinder, you kept coming back to dispute something else - even if no one had replied to you.

I keep seeing a common thread running through people's comments (more and more the more you post and dispute and argue and bully): I used to like you, Psiko. Let's don't drive away everyone who likes you, okay? I have no hard feelings toward you personally, just against some things you've done, and I'm sure others feel the same. Perhaps you should keep making levels instead of critiquing - it's what you do best!

posted 02-19-2002 02:37 PM               

" We all (may) have different tastes but this is not the reason to start discussing it here. This is a TRLE related forum and not a relationship related forum. So, please, bear that in mind. If a moderator closes a thread that already means something, don't you think so, psiko?"

Let's leave it closed!